TED BUNDY INTERVIEW

BY DR. DOBSON

Journey Into the Mind of a Madman

He confessed to 23 murders. Some believe he was responsible for as many as 50 more. Follow Ted Bundy's dizzying descent from all-American boy to mass murderer in "Fatal Addiction." Sharing a final, on-camera statement with Dr. James Dobson the day before his execution, the serial killer spoke a chilling warning of the dangers of pornography and the ways it can infiltrate even good, stable homes.

When either internal restraints of harming others are inadequately developed, diminished or the urges become too strong, we find sex addicts like Ted Bundy without boundaries for behavior controls. Bundy's addiction for pornography stripped or diminished any possible restraints which may be at best inadequately developed. In most all respects, Bundy came from a good family.

Serial killer Ted Bundy described his experience in an interview with Dr. James Dobson (a psychologist who served on the Attorney General's Commission on Pornography and founder of Focus on the Family) on January 23, 1989, the day before Bundy was executed:

Dr. Dobson: "For the record, you are guilty of killing many women and girls."

Bundy: "Yes. Yes. That's true ... Okay, but before I go any further, I think it's important to me that people believe what I'm saying. I'm not blaming pornography. I'm not saying that it caused me to go out and do certain things. And I take full responsibility for whatever I've done ... That's not the question here. The question and the issue is how this kind of literature contributed and helped mold and shape the kinds of violent behavior."

Dobson: "It fueled your fantasies."

Bundy: "In the beginning it fuels this kind of thought process. Then at a certain time it's instrumental in what I would say crystallizing it, making it into something which is almost like a separate entity inside. At that point you're at the verge, or I was at the verge of acting out on these kinds of thoughts."

Dobson: "Now, I really want to understand that. You had gone about as far as you could go in your own fantasy life with printed materials, and then there was the urge to take that little or big step further to a physical event."

Bundy: "Right. And it happened in stages, gradually. It doesn't necessarily, not to me at least, happen overnight. My experience with pornography that deals on a violent level with sexuality is that once you become addicted to it—and I look at this as a kind of addiction—like other kinds of addiction ... I would keep looking for more potent, more explicit, more graphic kinds of materials. Like an addiction, you keep craving something which is harder, harder. Something which gives you a greater sense of excitement. Until you reach the point where the pornography only goes so far ..."

Dobson: "How long did you stay at this point before you actually assaulted someone?"

Bundy: "I would say a couple of years. What I was dealing with were strong inhibitions against criminal behavior—violent behavior—that had been conditioned into me, bred into me, in my environment, in my neighborhood, in my church, in my school. Things which said no, this is wrong. And I'm on that edge, and these last ... you might say, vestiges of restraint—the barriers to actually do something were being tested constantly, and assailed through the kind of fantasy life that was fueled largely by pornography."

Dobson: "Do you remember what pushed you over the edge? ... Would it be accurate to call that a frenzy, a sexual frenzy?"

Bundy: "...That's one way to describe it. A compulsion, a building of destructive energy. Again, another fact here that I haven't mentioned is the use of alcohol. But I think that what alcohol did in conjunction with, let's say, my exposure to pornography [is that] alcohol reduced my inhibitions at the same time.

Dobson: "Alright, if I can understand it now, there is this battle going on within. There are the conventions you've been taught. There's the right and wrong that you learned as a child. And then there is this unbridled passion fueled by your plunge into hard-core, violent pornography. And those things are at war with each other."

Bundy: "Yes."

Dobson: "And then the alcohol diminishing the inhibitions, you let go."

Bundy: "Well, yes. And you can summarize it that way, and that's accurate, certainly. And it just occurred to me that some people would say that, well, I've seen that stuff, and it doesn't do anything to me ..."

Dobson: "Addictions are like that. They affect some people more than they affect others ..."

Dobson: "...You really feel that hardcore pornography and the doorway to it, soft-core pornography, is doing untold damage to other people, and causing other women to be abused and killed the way you did."

Bundy: "Listen. I'm no social scientist, and I haven't done a survey ... But I've lived in prison for a long time now. And I've met a lot of men who were motivated to commit violence like me. And without exception, every one of them was deeply involved in pornography—without exception, without exception—deeply influenced and consumed by an addiction to pornography."

Ted Bundy made quite a "name" during his brief lifetime. He did so because he killed nice girls—instead of prostitutes. He did so because the night before his execution he spoke with Dr. James Dobson about how pornography had affected his life for the worse. He didn't claim that pornography "made him do it." Since Bundy didn't ask Dr. Dobson to intervene on his behalf with the Florida governor, why then did the lovers of pornography work so hard to discredit the Bundy statement

Here are excerpts from Geberth's book that link pornography to violent sex crimes.

"In one case on which the author consulted, the victim was an attractive middle-aged single woman . . . . The suspect, who was a fetish burglar, . . . acted out his most perverse fantasies with her body. . . . The suspect made multiple 1-900 sex-line phone calls throughout the day and night from the victim's residence…He also brought pornographic magazines into the scene and a list of 1-900 numbers, which were matched to his calls from the victim's residence by detectives. He engaged in sadistic sexual activities with the victim's body...." [pp. 16-17]

"Sadistic fantasies or acts may involve activities that indicate the dominance of the person over the victim…as in the case depicted in The Perfect Victim (McGuire & Norton 1988). This case involved Cameron Hooker and his wife Janice. Cameron Hooker's fantasy was to dominate and torture nude women who were bound and helpless. His fantasies were fueled by an extensive collection of hard-core pornography that featured bondage, leather and handcuffs, and whips…At one point during this torture, [a victim] was able to see through the bottom of her blindfold. She saw a picture of a naked woman hanging in much the same position that she was hanging. Apparently, Cameron was using this sadistic pornography to script his fantasy into reality." [p. 23 and p. 741] [p.741]

"Fantasy plays a major role in everyone's sexual behavior ... The contrast of these normal fantasies would be the aberrant development of bizarre sexual images involving grotesque unnatural distortions of sexual imagery ... The individual becomes aroused by thoughts and fantasies of sexual aggression ... This paraphilic lovemap is then reinforced through repetition, illustrated by the use of sadistic pornography and fantasy stories featuring sexual sadism ...In Chapter 9, the author presents an offender who fantasized and enhanced his pornography by adding bindings to the female models. ... He then posed the body [of a victim] at the scene with her legs spread apart and held in that position with a vine from the trees. This pose was the same as his pornography with the added bindings." [pp. 36-37]

"Some samples of actual writings of sexual sadists [in order] to present how significant these fantasies become in the actual analysis of the crimes presented here ... Reinforcement of the Fantasy: Case 4 Continued ...'When I got to Denver there were a lot of sex shops. There I found bondage magazines and videos. Magazines of beautiful women and young girls tied, bound and gagged in just about every way possible. I was in heaven. I bought lots of mags and videos. After a year or so of watching I wanted the real thing. I wanted a woman bound up and sexually abused ... I didn't want a willing partner as (name withheld) had been. I wanted an unwilling partner. I would go out and walk the streets and visit clubs looking for the right woman or girl'" [Following the quote, Geberth comments, "In many cases, the offenders used girlfriends or prostitutes to act out their sadistic fantasies…[F]rom an investigative perspective, the sexual crimes committed by the offenders and the activities they engaged in with consenting partners were almost mirror image scenarios."] [pp.44-45]

"Case 5: Serial Rapist's Diary ... [T]he sexual bondage and discipline magazines he purchased were reflected in his behavior with consenting partners as well as his victims ... My review of the [perpetrator's journal] indicated a progression of activities, as the offender repeatedly acted out the scenarios depicted in the magazines and incorporated the pictures of the bound women into his fantasy system ..." [pp.45]

"Case 9 ... This subject ... worked in his mother's clothing store. As the young mother and her daughter walked toward the back of the store, the offender quickly began ushering other customers out of the store ... He was unable to complete the rape, but he did involve himself in sexual conduct with the woman's body ... During a search of the clothing store, police located ... a VCR and three pornographic videos in the backroom of the store. Apparently, he would entertain himself by viewing these tapes ... The police executed a search warrant of his residence. A search of his room revealed obsessive interest in pornography ... The significance of his obsession with pornography, coupled with his previous behavior [sex-related incidents], as well as the triggering mechanism ... are excellent examples of fantasy-driven expression." [pp.51-52]

"Case 11 ... The offender [a serial killer] focused his attacks on specific body regions, particularly the breasts ... Investigation revealed that the offender had an intense interest in bondage and total control and submission of his victims ... When the authorities in this case executed a search warrant at the subject's home, they discovered that he maintained a private room in the house ... Among the many items recovered in this room was an extensive collection of B&D [Bondage & Discipline] materials and other pornography, which indicated the subject's intense interest in sadomasochistic activities ... " [pp.57-58]

Case 12 ... This case involved a serial killer who was killing prostitutes ... Once he completed the sex act, he stripped and tortured them for hours ... The significance of fantasy in this case was graphically revealed when ... detectives went to the killer's home and retrieved a number of items, including one pornographic videotape ... This videotape contained a number of scenes that were similar to what the offender was doing to his victims. The breast assault and paddling activities appeared to be based upon this sadomasochistic videotape, which seemingly fueled his increasingly sadistic activities ... " [pp.61-62]

"Case History ... This case presented a murder/suicide ... Susan's body was in a supine position ... She suffered a number of stab wounds into her chest and breast. The stab wounds continued down her chest into her pubic and pelvic area, and her throat was cut. Telephone cord had been wrapped tightly around her neck ... and it was apparent that Frank had positioned his wife's body in a pose similar to some of the drawings police recovered ... The police discovered 115 drawings and 105 photographs of nude women. There were also 83 men's magazines, including High Society, Gallery and Penthouse. Many of the magazines had pages removed, including pictures of centerfolds with stab marks. Frank also maintained an extensive collection of…pornographic videotapes…The numerous photographs of nude women from magazines with knife holes and simulated bullet holes through the pictures displayed his obsession with sexual mutilation of women. [pp. 68-83]

"Danielle van Dam Kidnap and murder. Seven-year-old Danielle van Dam disappeared from her family home in the middle of the night on February 2, 2003 ... Within 2 days of the abduction, a neighbor of the van Dam family, [defendant], became the prime suspect in the case. The little girl's body was not discovered until February 27 ... The trial lasted 2 ½ months ... The prosecution stressed the DNA evidence and forensic evidence ... The authorities also seized thousands of computer files filled with child pornography from [defendant's] computer, including a cartoon video of the rape of a young girl. The prosecutor said, 'The video represented [defendant's] sexual fantasies and inspired the abduction, rape and murder of Danielle.'" [pp. 602-604] Geberth wrote his book to help law enforcement investigators solve violent sex crimes, not to prove a causal link between pornography and violent sex crimes. But the link is made clear.